Winchester says the .350 Legend drops 7.6 inches at 200 yards and just over 28 inches at 300 yards when zeroed at 100 yards. 350 offers a significant increase in velocity and energy without having to buy a specialty bolt. I calculated the killing power of these loads at 100 yards, as most whitetail deer, blacktail deer and feral hogs are killed at 100 yards, or less. In this category, the 300 Blackout bags a trophy for being the more affordable ammo against the 350 Legend. For old school deer hunters (like me) the lever action is perhaps the best all-around platform for a hunting cartridge. .350 Legend Cost Advantage. for the 6.8 SPC and 7.0 ft. lbs. There are simply more barrels, magazines, rifles, pistols and other accessories dedicated to 300 Blackout as opposed to 350 Legend. A longer, smaller diameter projectile penetrates better than a shorter, fatter projectile of the same weight and construction, which only makes sense. 120 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. 150 grain EP: +3.0" (100), -2.5" (200), -10.3" (250), .350 Legend, Win. ... 300 Blackout. The 180 grain .350 Legend load just makes the minimum SD .200 rule of thumb, while the lower SDs of the 160 and 150 grain .357" bullets does not bode well for them penetrating deeply on heavy bodied animals. for the .300 BLK (all in 8 pound rifles). The only difference is its change for AR15 instead of AK47.While the 7.62×39 claims its prestige in most Eastern countries, the 300 blackout gains its popularity in America. 300 Blackout is interesting, but .350 Legend is about the single greatest reason for removing SBRs from NFA I have ever seen, except perhaps for a similar device in the 10MM Magnum cartridge; a 12″ barreled suppressed Ruger PCC, similar to their 9MM version, in .350 Legend with a 12-18 round magazine answers nearly every home and personal defense question. .350 Legend, Winchester 150 grain EP: 204, .350 Legend, Winchester 160 grain PHP: 192, .350 Legend, Winchester 180 grain PP: 185, 6.5 Grendel, Hdy. Any short-action platform that handles the .223 Remington can be easily reworked to handle the .350 Legend cartridge. According to Winchester, the 350 Legend has more energy than many popular rifle cartridges, including the .30-30 Winchester, the .300 Blackout, and the .223 Remington. In this category, the 350 Legend takes another win. The .350 Legend may prosper as a medium bore deer hunting cartridge, not only in restricted cartridge areas, but in general. I am a firm believer in sighting-in hunting rifles and loads for maximum point blank range (MPBR). 93 Videos. Winchester Deer Season 150 grain Extreme Point (EP) - BC .223 Your email address will not be published. They can also be useful for hunters who wish to use AR-15 rifles to hunt Class 2 game elsewhere. for the 6.5 Grendel, 7.5 ft. lbs. That’s two decades of expertly upholding the Texan gun culture. But when compared to the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over. Unfortunately, many such systems have no correlation with reality at all. The 350 Legend is brand new, BUT has a bit of a Pedigree As its basically a rimless 357 Maximum. Choosing the right cartridge for the perfect hunting experience could be an arduous task, especially when your choice lies between the 350 Legend and the 300 Blackout that both offer excellent functionality. Sectional density (SD) is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches. I may build a 350 LGND AR and get the RARR to go with it, but I am in a holding pattern, waiting to see if it makes it. = 19.2; KPS at 245 yds = 15.5, 6.8 SPC, Hdy. Another Winchester .350 Legend promotional chart compares energy on target at 200 yards and includes the .30-30, 223 and .300 Blackout. .350 Legend .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf. Among the cartridges compared, only the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC loads approach being 250 yard cartridges. There have been a number of different manufacturers who make both bolt action and semi-auto rifles for the 450 Bushmaster. 180 grain PP: KPS at 100 yds. advantages. Although buying 300 Blackout is also a great decision because it is more affordable, the 350 Legend is easier to find even during ammo shortages. Balanced Performance. Winchester produces millions of rounds of .223 Rem. I am involved in a lot of outdoor activities, and a few years ago I added hunting to the list, which I really enjoy. Since the .350 Legend uses brass that starts off on the same machines, it is relatively simple to produce in large quantities. But when compared to the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over. She would be hunting from a blind with shots no more than 50 yards. My argument is that a prudent and responsible hunter should never attempt a shot at a game animal beyond the MPBR of the cartridge/load being used (and closer is always better). 1-7 and 1-8 Twist Rate for 300 Blackout here. This may not be a great concern on deer and similar sized thin skinned game that do not require a lot of penetration if only broadside lung shots are taken, because these large diameter bullets are going to deliver a lot of shock energy to the target, even if they do not always penetrate well. The 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards while the 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range. The 300 has a better ballistic coefficient and should have slightly longer range but that won't be a factor in the decision, so it's a wash. 0 Comments. Why Use the 350 Legend? The loads are listed in descending order of their MV. 350 Legend VS 300 Blackout. The 350 gets over 23% more penetration than .243 Win and 60% more than .223 Rem. I feel that a +/- 3-inch MPBR is appropriate for rifles used to hunt Class 2 game, including the cartridges being evaluated here. 120 grain SST: +2.9" (100), +0.3" (200), -3.9" (250), .350 Legend, Win. of recoil in an eight pound rifle. The characteristics compared include velocity and energy, maximum point blank range and far zero, trajectory, sectional density, killing power and recoil. Certainly, that last claim is correct. Although for ammo availability-wise, the 350 Legend could beat 300 BLK, still, the 300 Blackout is more cost-effective. Here at Guns and Shooting Online we have made something of a cottage industry of evaluating the performance of the recently introduced .350 Legend cartridge, compared with other relevant cartridges. Results are in descending order of MPBR. At reasonable straight-wall cartridge hunting distances, for both velocity and trajectory, there is no real out-and-out winner between .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend. The MPBR numbers say that this is a substantial over-reach, for all the Legend loads, which have MPBRs between 185 and 204 yards. By ocean374. ocean374. While the 300 AAC Blackout loads usually weigh between 180- and 220-grains. It’s safe to claim that the 300 Blackout gets its first win against the 350 Legend. In 350 Legend vs 300 Blackout bullet energy, the 350 Legend gets another win. The 450 Bushmaster has really proven itself to be a short-range beast in the hunting world. All in all, the .350 Legend holds its own against the comparison cartridges. At the end I will summarize results, muse about rifle platforms and make some concluding remarks. For varmint hunters, competitors, and gun owners practicing at a distance, supersonic 300 BLKs are big medicine. One of the disadvantages of the 450 Bushmaster is the amount of recoil associated with the round… One of the best, in terms of positive correlation with reality, has proven to be the G&S Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula. The 300 Blackout data was with a 16″ barrel, and the rest were with 20″ barrels. For Class 2 game, a SD of .200 has long been considered about the minimum acceptable for medium range rifle cartridges. Ditto for AR15 platforms, whether complete rifles or uppers. For varmint hunters, competitors, and gun owners practicing at a distance, supersonic 300 BLKs are big medicine. What’s The Best 1-4x Scope for the Money? The 350 Legend offers bullet weights ranging from 145 to 265 gr and the ability to practice cheaply with low recoil and high velocity. SD affects penetration, as all other factors being equal (bullet construction, for example) the bullet with the highest sectional density will penetrate deepest. This is why I preach the "never take a shot beyond MPBR, and closer is always better" doctrine. Here are the loads I will evaluate and compare. = 14.0, .300 BLK, Win. = 22.6; KPS at 185 yds = 16.6, .350 Legend, Win. Velocity flattens trajectory and makes hitting easier as the range increases. As fine a cartridge as it is, 300 Blackout had the advantage in that it had more than a 10-year head start on 350 Legend. Bullet placement is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills, so anything that makes hitting easier is desirable. AR-15 350 Legend 12.5" Mlok Tactical Upper Assembly - The new 350 Legend is an upgrade to your standard AR-15 platform in pistol length. We need more information before drawing firm conclusions about the .350 Legend loads. Our KPS parameters and results assume vital area hits, of course. I have had hunters that used the 300 HAMR and 350 Legend and both produced great results without much trailing of animals needed. Winchester touts the .350 Legend as "designed for deer hunting out to 250 yards." We also had a gun writer bring out a Bighorn 500 Automax and it was near impossible to get it to fire more than once without it jamming. 150 grain EP: KPS at 100 yds. MI is one of the states that allow a straight wall case for deer hunting. The Legend looks like a prayer answered for those who hunt in areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Winchester has published some vague promotional material with numbers that suggest that the .350 Legend generates about 12 percent lower recoil than a .30-30. I came up with a tentative recoil estimate that may or may not be accurate for the .350 Legend, 180 grain load, but it is the best I can do right now without verified powder charge data for the new cartridge. What is the 350 Legend parent case? With a 10-year headstart on 350 Legend, there are more options for the 300 Blackout, more barrels, magazines, rifles, pistols, and other accessories dedicated to 300 Blackout instead of 350 Legend. more than the .30-30 fired from a 20-inch barrel or a .300 BLK fired from a 16-inch barrel. There’s no denying, the 450 Bushmaster is a devastating hard hitter when it comes to deer and medium-sized game. Producing bolt action rifles in .350 Legend should be a snap. (.264"), .0603 sq. Killing power is the most difficult factor to estimate, as there is no definitive scientific formula to apply. The 7.62x39mm Soviet cartridge was also evaluated, but did not make the cut. In other words, you have the same 30 caliber round that the 7.62×39 has. Meanwhile, my limited experience with AR15s in the field is that they are unwieldy to carry and awkward to mount, but that may be just me. A game animal hit somewhere other than in the vitals is not likely to go down cleanly, no matter the size, weight and impact energy of the bullet. It also boasts approximately 20-percent less recoil than the .243 Win and has less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. 300 blackout any barrel length: fun caliber to shoot, but more expensive than 5.56/.223 to train with. Its ballistics are JUST behind the 35 Remington. 123 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. By comparison, my best estimates of recoil in the other calibers and loads are 7.9 ft. lbs. Here are the MPBR yardages. A prime selling point of the .350 Legend is that it boasts low recoil and low expense when compared directly to the .450 Bushmaster. After its debut, Winchester claimed that the 350 Legend was the fastest straight wall cartridge ever released to overthrow the 300 Blackout ammunition in the market. = 19.7; KPS at 205 yds. In addition, the .300 BLK load has the limitations of being the least powerful load overall and having the next to shortest MPBR. If I had to choose one of these loads as an all purpose tool for hunting common Class 2 game, it would be the 6.5 Grendel, which combines adequate power, the longest range in the group and good bullet sectional density. The 300 blk is possible but marginal for deer. Good for youth shooters or people sensitive to recoil. Various systems have been created to estimate the killing power of rifle cartridges, with varying results in terms of accuracy. My guesstimate is that this load will generate about 9.0 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle and retains a bit more than 900 ft.-lbs. Lever action rifles, such as the Winchester Model 94, Marlin Model 336 and Henry Lever Action .30-30, carry and mount well and cycle fast when more than a single shot is needed. lbs.) I say this even though I have carried compact, short-action bolt rifles on the majority of my deer hunts. The 300 Blackout still costs cheaper for a dollar or two per box. We estimate that a rifle cartridge should generate a KPS of at least 12.5 at the range the bullet impacts to be a viable hunting cartridge for common Class 2 game, up to roughly 150 - 175 pounds (e.g., deer and pronghorn), while a KPS of 15.0 gives a margin of killing power for larger Class 2 game (up to 300 pounds). The remaining four loads have the common limitation of not carrying general Class 2 game power (KPS 15 or greater) all the way to their MPBR distances, though all are powerful enough (KPS greater than 12.5) for medium size, thin skinned game, such as deer. This high-intensity MAP is no problem with bolt action and AR designs, but a lever rifle chambered in .350 Legend must have a front-locking bolt, such as the Browning BLR and Henry Long Ranger designs. 6.5 Creedmoor. every month for the U.S. military. Born and raised in Austin TX, Alfred has been shooting guns since he was 18. Low recoil. The Legend is likely a quicker/better killer than the 30/30. 160 grain PHP: KPS at 100 yds. This is the subject of this article, to compare the .350 Legend with the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Remington SPC and the .300 Blackout. 180 grain PP: +2.9" (100), -5.2" (200), -15.7" (250), 123 grain (.264"): SD .252 - 6.5 Grendel load, 150 grain (.308"): SD .226 - .300 BLK load, 120 grain (.277"): SD .223 - 6.8 SPC load, 180 grain (.357"): SD .202 - .350 Legend PP load, 160 grain (.357"): SD .179 - .350 Legend PHP load, 150 grain (.357"): SD .168 - .350 Legend EP load, .350 Legend, Win. The .350 Legend (9×43 mm), also called 350 LGND, is a SAAMI-approved straight-walled hunting cartridge developed by Winchester Repeating Arms.The cartridge was designed for use in American states that have specific regulations for deer hunting with straight-walled centerfire cartridges. The purpose of these comparisons was to make a thorough on-paper evaluation of how the .350 Legend stacks up in performance against two cartridges long proven to be effective and efficient at taking deer and similar game animals. Here are the SD numbers for our comparison bullets, in descending order. (.357"). 350 Legend has no parent case. The 300 Blackout gets its another win against 350 Legend because it can carry multiple loads in different magazines. I have enjoyed the outdoors for many years. Required fields are marked *. The abiding problem with medium and large bore bullets is that they must be quite heavy to have high sectional densities. This is typical of medium velocity cartridges in general. vs. .300 BLK, a bit of history is warranted. Being a few years older than the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout captured the eyes of most hunters. All rights reserved. Recommended article: 458 SOCOM vs 308 Winchester Comparison. However, 350 Legend uses the same .378 nominal rim diameter as 223 Rem. DA: 34 PA: 75 MOZ Rank: 6. Results are in descending order of MPBR yardage. Basically, It is a larger caliber bullet in a smaller capacity shell. Shorter range shots improve the likelihood of placing a bullet in the right place. 123 grain SST: +2.9" (100), +0.5" (200), -3.6" (250), 6.8 SPC, Hdy. It even has over 14% more energy than 300 Blackout, 15% more than 30-30 Win, and 49% more than .223 Rem. With marginal cartridge specs, the 350 Legend vs 300 Blackout topic always gets a head-on collision in the shooting community. The bottom line is all of these hunting cartridges and loads are easy on the shoulder, so that recoil is not a significant deciding factor among them. Most data avalible for the Maximum is from pistol and contender barrels much shorter than the 16” Ruger American. Reviews & Buying Guide. 150 grain EP: KPS at 100 yds. The 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. advantages. Obviously, to kill cleanly, any hunting bullet must penetrate into the animal's vitals, so hunting bullet SD is important. This round was designed by Winchester primarily to address some perceived shortcomings associated with the .450 Bushmaster. The loads being compared are not clearly specified, which is why I say the information is vague. Extremely versatile. Straight-wall hunting states. 300 Blackout and 350 Legend range day. Therefore, it has potential as an effective hunting cartridge, especially when fed 180 grain bullets that have adequate sectional density for deer and hog hunting. If you want to continue reading about 300 Blackout, learn about 1-7 and 1-8 Twist Rate for 300 Blackout here. 300 Blackout has been optimized for maximum efficiency in a 9-inch barrel, making it very suitable for secret work in compact AR-15 SBRs. In the article noted above, Chuck Hawks explained the background and importance of the characteristics of these cartridges, as follows: "It is my understanding that Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana have mandated that rifles shooting cartridges of at least .35 caliber with straight wall cases between 1.16 and 1.8 inches in length are now legal for use in what I believe Michigan calls the 'limited firearms deer zone.' I was building a 458 SOCOM when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 BM and I changed gears. Looking for something to read on concealed carry pistols? 300 Blackout and 350 Legend range day . The 350 Legend shellcase is a new design that maximizes terminal performance while optimizing the ability to extract from a variety of firearms. In addition, the .300 BLK load has the limitations of being the least powerful load overall and having the next to shortest MPBR. in. AR15 fanciers, long saddled with marginal deer cartridges, are likely to jump all over the cartridge. I believe this load will prove to be the most effective of the initial Legend hunting loads, mainly because it has the highest bullet sectional density. Here are the velocity in feet-per-second (fps) and energy in foot-pounds (ft. 6307 Arnold Dr, Austin, TX 78723 | Phone: +1 (512) 412-1014 | Email: What’s the Difference Between 350 Legend & 300 AAC Blackout? The 350 Legend, also called the Winchester 350 Legend, was introduced by Winchester in 2019 At the time of this writing in April 2019 Winchester still states on their web-site: “The World’s Fastest-Straight Walled Hunting Cartridge with 20% less recoil than the .243 Winchester and 20% more penetration." Trajectory matters, because the flatter a bullet flies the easier it is to hit a target down range. = 16.5; KPS at 190 yds = 13.7. Note that all five loads, sighted-in for +/- 3 inch MPBR, shoot right at three inches high at 100 yards, which is how these cartridges should be zeroed. The 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards while the 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range. Winchester claims the 350 Legend is the world’s fastest straight-walled cartridge and has more energy than the 30-30 Win, 300 Blackout and 223 Rem. She has shot my AR and Scorpion. (They do not specify what the various test bullets or loads were.) The 7.62×39 uses a bullet diameter of .311, which can also be used in .303 British and 7.62x54R, but not in any .30-06, .308 Win, or 300 BLK. My choice of the Grendel, SPC, and Blackout for this evaluation is based on the results of an earlier article, Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer?. I am looking at In comparison, the effective range of a 350 Legend is somewhat shorter than 300 Blackout, although they both work best at around 100 yards or closer. It credits the .350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs. A well designed bolt rifle also carries and mounts satisfactorily, but cycles slower than a lever gun. Left is 300 Blackout, Center is 350 Legend, right is .223 Remington. Energy is an important component of killing power, as will be discussed below. It is also the most important factor when computing kinetic energy. 177 Views. These data further document what the MPBR data indicate: the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are about 240 yard cartridges, while two of the three Legend loads, along with the .300 BLK, fail to reach a useful range of 200 yards. (Formerly 'shotguns only,' I believe, for deer hunting.)". Winchester claims that the .350 Legend is the fastest production straight-walled hunting cartridge in … from a 20 inch rifle barrel, which is lower than any .30-30 load published in … (.308"), .1001 sq. 3 Likes. Trajectories are rounded to one decimal place; yardage is noted in parentheses. Unfortunately, the traditional lever rifle designs, with rear-locking bolts, cannot handle the .350 Legend cartridge, for the simple but critical reason that its MAP is 55,000 psi, well above what rear-locking lever designs can handle. in. This load generates 1,800 ft.-lbs. Winchester Power Max 160 grain Protected Hollow Point (PHP) - BC .201 Evaluating recoil of the .350 Legend is shaky right now, because there is no body of reloading data that can be consulted to get load powder charges, a necessary variable in recoil calculations. in. The .350 Legend is the latest straight-walled cartridge to make waves on the hunting scene. Copyright 2019 by Gary Zinn and/or chuckhawks.com. The main difference is that the Grendel carries more killing power to MPBR distance than does the SPC. While the performance of the .350 Legend is excellent, the cost of the cartridge is another attraction. = 13.5, .350 Legend, Win. Thermal Imaging vs Night Vision Optics – Which Is Better? To better understand the differences between 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. Your email address will not be published. = 19.5; KPS at 190 yds = 13.6, 6.5 Grendel, Hdy. 100% . The loads that impress me least are the 150 and 160 grain .350 Legend loads, mainly because of the low sectional densities of the light for caliber bullets. = 18.1; KPS at 240 yds. Check out our article on Taurus TCP and Ruger LCP. I found these three cartridges to be the best AR-15 hunting cartridges at the time the article was written. The loads that impress me least are the 150 and 160 grain .350 Legend loads, mainly because of the low sectional densities of the light for caliber bullets. Affordable ammo. The 350 Legend does not use standard 5.56 magazines; ... 300 BLK, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 450 Bushmaster. The 16 inch barrel data are used here, for all cartridges, because 16 inches is the most prevalent barrel length for AR-15 rifles. and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. Biggest thing is holding a gun up. 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Russian 7.62x39 combat cartridge was cut down, resized and inserted with a 16 inch barrel ) in the place! The eyes of most hunters one decimal place ; yardage is noted in parentheses like the legendary Russian 7.62x39 cartridge! Remington can be easily reworked to handle the.350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs the Grendel more! And raised in Austin TX, Alfred has been shooting guns since was. 12.. why use the 350 Legend 350 legend vs 300 blackout it can carry multiple loads in different.! In 8 pound rifles ) same except that the 6.8 SPC loads approach being 250 cartridges! With me next year she will be chambered in.350 Legend is the most important factor when computing energy. Who make both bolt action and magazine the winchester XPR bolt action rifle will chambered...